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Pardon me?
Author: Raine    Date: 12/08/2008 13:38:08

Less than 5 weeks. 5 weeks until we have a new administration, a new set of rules, a new lease on America. It's exciting and thrilling and hopeful and affirming. That said, there is less than 6 weeks for the current pResident to wreak havoc. Pardon me, you say? Why yes.

I am talking about the presidential power of the pardon. From Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution:
Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.
I believe that the office of President is special, I believe that yes, constitutionally, that office should have certain powers that help the running of the USA. What I do not believe is that a president can pardon a person who has not yet been convicted of a crime.

In the most recent past, the power of presidential pardon has been fraught with controversy from President Ford to Bill Clinton. We hear a lot about Mark Rich, but what about Caspar Wienberger? GHW Bush Pardoned him for taking part in sending missiles to Iran in what we now know as Iran-Contra Affair. Weinberger was charged with lying to the independent counsel after he resigned in 1987. He and 6 others were pardoned by the first Bush 41, essentially stopping all investigation into Iran Contra. What is most interesting about this, is that it prevented the Bush 41 from testifying, because GHW Bush actually worked for Reagan when the Iran Contra affair happened... he was the Head of the CIA. That poses a small conflict of interest, doesn't it? Why of course it does. This is the biggest issue I have with a presidential pardon: The pre-emptive pardon.

I understand blanket pardons for people like, say, those who suceded in the Civil war, or the many who dodged the draft during Vietnam. Such gestures can prove to be cathartic to the healing of a divided nation. So I get it, I understand the power of the pardon.

Pardoning someone who has not even been charged with a crime? How can that be right? Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for what reason exactly? He pardoned him for any crime he 'may have committed while in office. Perhaps that is my biggest issue with the presidential pardon. It isn't a partisan issue for me as so many others are, it is a fairness issue. I believe that if a president is to grant a pardon they should at a minimum 1) be charged with a crime, and 2) not have the ability to pardon anyone from within their own administration. I could try to add something about previous bosses, etc, but I think you get the point.

As we wait during these final few weeks of the 43rd Presidency of the United States of America, I believe that regardless of who is in office, it is time to contemplate a constitutional amendment to the pardon powers as described in our constitution. No one person should be able to pardon a person not even charged with a crime, and it is especially obscene to give one person the power to absolve himself of being criminally involved with a crime.

There is good news: Jerrold Nadler (D) NY, has introduced a bill to constitutionally amend the Pardon Power of the POTUS. It also asks that the POTUS should not issue pardons to senior members of his administration during the final 90 days of his term of office. I can get behind this.

I understand that it would require passage by by a two-thirds vote of both the Senate and the House and then be ratified by three-fourths of the states, but it seems to me that it would go a long way in removing the partisanship that can be woefully abused by the Commander in Chief. I do not care what letter is next to said person's name. I feel strongly about limiting the power of a pre-emptive pardon, ESPECIALLY if no one has been charged with a crime. Our constitution is lovely, but not perfect, and I believe that this is an issue that we as a nation need to look at, in the interest of the spirit of our constitution.

Limit the power of the Presidential pardon.

:peace: and
Raine



 

170 comments (Latest Comment: 12/09/2008 12:58:58 by Random)
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Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 13:47:16
Morning Raine - and - AMEN!! Well done :clap:



And you were kind enough to the *resident to not mention the DOJ guidelines - AND his failure to follow them - in politically charged situations. See Scooter Libby.



That is the problem with "guidelines" - they aren't Constitutionally required...

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 13:53:40
Why, Thank you Shane. Believe me I was tempted to mention scoot-y poot, trust me...

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 13:54:10
Morning! :hug:





Getting ready to pull names for Blogger Joe - so make sure you have your name and address to me by 10am :D

Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 13:58:37
Quote by Raine:

Why, Thank you Shane. Believe me I was tempted to mention scoot-y poot, trust me...


Wouldn't it be great to have a new Constitutional Convention?



As envisioned by the way-less partisan founders?



I love your idea - but I fear that the closely divided, and SHARPLY divided electorate we have now makes ANY amendment to the Constitution almost impossible.



Hell - the Senate can't even get cloture on an auto company loan program!!! HA!



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 13:59:07
Mala do you still have our Addresses, or should I send them to again?

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:02:52
Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by Raine:

Why, Thank you Shane. Believe me I was tempted to mention scoot-y poot, trust me...


Wouldn't it be great to have a new Constitutional Convention?



As envisioned by the way-less partisan founders?



I love your idea - but I fear that the closely divided, and SHARPLY divided electorate we have now makes ANY amendment to the Constitution almost impossible.



Hell - the Senate can't even get cloture on an auto company loan program!!! HA!

I would LOVE a constitutional convention.



I know what you mean about the divided electorate, but I kinda have a feeling that the division would actually work in this case... there are an AWFUL lot of scared folks right now, that would go for it, with the idea of Obama pardoning a million people in 4 years... I think that a properly worded amendment would be quite welcome to Americans.



I think that is a problem with the Nadler Bill, it just sounds too partisan due to it mentioning the current administration. I think the case can be made without the mention of any POTUS.



Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:07:41
Quote by Raine:

Mala do you still have our Addresses, or should I send them to again?






Unless it's change since someone sent it too me a couple of days ago - think I got it :p



Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:08:58
ask him is he's gonna do the Mole again :p

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:09:14
Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Raine:

Mala do you still have our Addresses, or should I send them to again?






Unless it's change since someone sent it too me a couple of days ago - think I got it :p





mmkay!



Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:12:16
I missed the set up - Shane-O why the Scooby song? :scratchhead:

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:13:05
Quote by Raine:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Raine:

Mala do you still have our Addresses, or should I send them to again?






Unless it's change since someone sent it too me a couple of days ago - think I got it :p





mmkay!







:hug:



I do need to know if I should list you as Ms. K or Ms. R



Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 14:15:10
Quote by wickedpam:

I missed the set up - Shane-O why the Scooby song? :scratchhead:


Scooby Doo "Where Are You?" -- Bushy Doo "Where Are You?"



Lack of leadership -- course, if I have to 'splain -- not funny...

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:15:59
when did we start decoracting for the King holiday?

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:17:23
Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by wickedpam:

I missed the set up - Shane-O why the Scooby song? :scratchhead:


Scooby Doo "Where Are You?" -- Bushy Doo "Where Are You?"



Lack of leadership -- course, if I have to 'splain -- not funny...






oh no it wasn't that I just came in the last few seconds and I didn't hear the start

:hug:

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:18:43




I still miss him... 28 years ago today he was taken from us.



Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:19:24
I have to say - I agree with Thom on the subject of that sign. It was a lovely setiment up until they decided to try and rub it in peoples faces.

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:22:39
Quote by wickedpam:



:hug:



I do need to know if I should list you as Ms. K or Ms. R



I am Ms. K

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:28:03
Quote by Raine:

Quote by wickedpam:



:hug:



I do need to know if I should list you as Ms. K or Ms. R



I am Ms. K




duely noted :D



Comment by TriSec on 12/08/2008 14:33:34
Morning, comrades!



Typo police for Ms. Raine: Did you meane "those that seceded" during the Civil War? Because "those that succeeded" would be the Union Army....





Comment by TriSec on 12/08/2008 14:34:51
Quote by wickedpam:

when did we start decoracting for the King holiday?




We put up our tree this weekend, so we're all set for Balthazar, Gaspar, and Melchior.



Or did you not mean those kings?







Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:36:45
On Newt and deregulation ...



Amazing what a little lobbying can do. <_<

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:37:52
Quote by TriSec:

Morning, comrades!



Typo police for Ms. Raine: Did you meane "those that seceded" during the Civil War? Because "those that succeeded" would be the Union Army....







Oh dear!



Thanks triSec! (unintentional Irony alert... I have officially lived too long in the south!)



Comment by starling310 on 12/08/2008 14:39:07
Morning all. Good shite! It's cold here in the Northeast. Oi.

I have my home desk set up directly in front of the pellet stove. Mmmmm....waaarm.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:39:39
Quote by TriSec:

Quote by wickedpam:

when did we start decoracting for the King holiday?




We put up our tree this weekend, so we're all set for Balthazar, Gaspar, and Melchior.



Or did you not mean those kings?











Nope, not even the Wenselas - more like the MLK holiday ;)



Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 14:40:29
Quote by Raine:

Quote by TriSec:

Morning, comrades!



Typo police for Ms. Raine: Did you meane "those that seceded" during the Civil War? Because "those that succeeded" would be the Union Army....







Oh dear!



Thanks triSec! (unintentional Irony alert... I have officially lived too long in the south!)



OK - that's the funniest typo, correction and response EVA! -- I'm dyin' :rofl:



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:41:01
Unfortunate typo fixed... (see below for details... )







Comment by Scoopster on 12/08/2008 14:41:10
Morning all! Wheeee today should be a fun day at the office. We're re-drawing the tourism regions of New England for the website redesign! And no input allowed from silly state tourism boards either!



Oh hey.. traffic widget says Providence is in the house! :banana:

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 14:41:17
Quote by Raine:

Quote by TriSec:

Morning, comrades!



Typo police for Ms. Raine: Did you meane "those that seceded" during the Civil War? Because "those that succeeded" would be the Union Army....







Oh dear!



Thanks triSec! (unintentional Irony alert... I have officially lived too long in the south!)







:spit: That makes an entirely different spin on it



Comment by TriSec on 12/08/2008 14:48:59
Quote by Scoopster:

Morning all! Wheeee today should be a fun day at the office. We're re-drawing the tourism regions of New England for the website redesign! And no input allowed from silly state tourism boards either!



Oh hey.. traffic widget says Providence is in the house! :banana:






Oh, that's easy!



Inside Route 128: Most Historic Area Of America

Western Mass: Foliage

Vermont: Cheese

NH/Maine: Cows

Rhode Island: ?

Connecticut: New Yorkers



There, map done!









Comment by BobR on 12/08/2008 14:54:51
The personification of big brass ones... or chutzpah... or hubris... pick your own adjective.







douchebag works too.

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 14:55:58
So, about the Wall Street bailout...



After the Bank of America -- a $25-billion recipient of Bailout Czar Hank Paulson's "Wall Street First" largesse -- cut off operating credit to the Republic Windows and Doors company, executives of the firm announced Friday that they were shutting its factory in Chicago.



Instead of going home to a dismal Holiday season like hundreds of thousands of other working Americans who have fallen victim to the corporate "reduction-in-force" frenzy of recent weeks -- which has seen suddenly-secure banks pocket federal dollars rather than loosen up credit -- the Republic workers occupied the factory where many of them had worked for decades.



Members of United Electrical Workers Local 1110, which represents 260 Republic workers, are conducting the contemporary equivalent of the 1930s sit-down strikes that led to the rapid expansion of union recognition nationwide and empowered the Roosevelt administration to enact more equitable labor laws. And, just as in the thirties, they are objecting to policies that put banks ahead of workers; stickers worn by the UE sit-down strikers read: "You got bailed out, we got sold out."




That's right, the sitdown strike may have been prevented had BoA not cut off the credit...



That was kinba the effing idea of the bailout, right???



:rage:

Comment by Scoopster on 12/08/2008 14:56:34
Quote by TriSec:

Quote by Scoopster:

Morning all! Wheeee today should be a fun day at the office. We're re-drawing the tourism regions of New England for the website redesign! And no input allowed from silly state tourism boards either!



Oh hey.. traffic widget says Providence is in the house! :banana:




Oh, that's easy!



Inside Route 128: Most Historic Area Of America

Western Mass: Foliage

Vermont: Cheese

NH/Maine: Cows

Rhode Island: ?

Connecticut: New Yorkers



There, map done!


:lol: Well that works for me.. unfortunately they're a bunch of politicians and tourism boards involved trying to get everyone's eye on them.



Like friggin' Warwick RI. They've been bitching at us for months that they don't have their OWN REGION, separate from Providence, when the only thing they really have going for them is the damn airport (T.F. Green, aka PVD).

Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:06:33
Quote by BobR:

The personification of big brass ones... or chutzpah... or hubris... pick your own adjective.







douchebag works too.
:rage:



This is obscene...



Comment by Scoopster on 12/08/2008 15:15:05
Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:15:57
breaking on MSNBC: Supreme Court just turned down appeal from Donofrio about Obama's birth certificate.

Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 15:17:03
Quote by Raine:

breaking on MSNBC: Supreme Court just turned down appeal from Donofrio about Obama's birth certificate.




Crazy that it went that far ("thank you" A.J. Thomas :sarcasm:)



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:24:34
Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by Raine:

breaking on MSNBC: Supreme Court just turned down appeal from Donofrio about Obama's birth certificate.




Crazy that it went that far ("thank you" A.J. Thomas :sarcasm:)





Yeah I know. I knew it would not be heard tho. Everyone seems to be going nuts, but the reality is that if it CAN get that far the SCOTUS must at least consider it.











Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:28:12
From HuffPo:



The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.



The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election. Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth _ his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject _ he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.



Donofrio also contends that two other candidates, Republican John McCain and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero, also are not natural-born citizens and thus ineligible to be president.



At least one other appeal over Obama's citizenship remains at the court. Philip J. Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa., argues that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii as Obama says and the Hawaii secretary of state has confirmed. Berg says Obama also may be a citizen of Indonesia, where he lived as a boy. Federal courts in Pennsylvania have dismissed Berg's lawsuit.



Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 15:28:34
Quote by Raine:

Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by Raine:

breaking on MSNBC: Supreme Court just turned down appeal from Donofrio about Obama's birth certificate.




Crazy that it went that far ("thank you" A.J. Thomas :sarcasm:)





Yeah I know. I knew it would not be heard tho. Everyone seems to be going nuts, but the reality is that if it CAN get that far the SCOTUS must at least consider it.













May I suggest "Everyone" = Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts???



Whew... that at least two of them where smart enough to STAY OUT.



As should the Senate on Minnesota... ??? Anyone???



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:31:43
Quote by Shane-O:



May I suggest "Everyone" = Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts???



Whew... that at least two of them where smart enough to STAY OUT.



As should the Senate on Minnesota... ??? Anyone???



Shane, check out who denied hearing the case.

Comment by TriSec on 12/08/2008 15:34:44
*grunt*



Well, did you hear that story on the AP about the tiny church in PA that got $2m from one of their parishoners?



So they've decided to donate a whopping $20k to some sort of missionary. So they give a paltry sum to an organization that's going to convert people to Christianity.



La de Freakin' da! How about all the hungry or homeless people in your parish? Gonna help them out, too?



This is what kills me about organized religion. Like I said about the Boston Archdiocese, "What, they couldn't sell off a piece of gold to pay for their legal fees?"





Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:36:47
About *ush's new digs...until 2000, the neighborhood banned blacks - unless they were servants.

Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 15:38:07
Quote by Raine:

Quote by Shane-O:



May I suggest "Everyone" = Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts???



Whew... that at least two of them where smart enough to STAY OUT.



As should the Senate on Minnesota... ??? Anyone???



Shane, check out who denied hearing the case.




Damn - Raine - please tell me which - cuz my comp keep freezing up with adobe... please!!!



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:43:53
Quote by Shane-O:

Damn - Raine - please tell me which - cuz my comp keep freezing up with adobe... please!!!

The application for stay addressed to Justice Thomas and referred to the Court is denied.






Comment by TriSec on 12/08/2008 15:47:59
*snort*



Ya know, for $10, I'll create a fancy commemorative certificate, and we'll record your star name in the International Registry of Four Freedoms for future reference.



[Star Registry ads appearing on NovaM again...]





Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 15:52:19
Quote by Raine:

Quote by Shane-O:

Damn - Raine - please tell me which - cuz my comp keep freezing up with adobe... please!!!

The application for stay addressed to Justice Thomas and referred to the Court is denied.






Yah -- the Thomas referral, known. Unfortunately, no recorded votes of the other justices regarding the referral... Thanks Raine! (the pdf FINALLY came up!)



Comment by Raine on 12/08/2008 15:58:24
Sorry for the pdf link Shane...



I suspect we will know more details regarding the case soon, huh?

Comment by Shane-O on 12/08/2008 16:03:21
Quote by Raine:

Sorry for the pdf link Shane...



I suspect we will know more details regarding the case soon, huh?




I wish we would... often those votes (on certiorari) are "private" -- what a democracy!!!



Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 16:03:29
Okay - Blogger Joe Addy's have gone out - if you didn't get one and you threw your name in the hat please let me know asap!

Comment by wickedpam on 12/08/2008 16:10:32
Now I get the picture Shane-O - it's very cute :lol: